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Barbiturates: Fatal Doses
K Dog
2003-10-22 01:15:55 UTC
Just wanted to update on the info (re: Barbiturates: Toxic Doses)

Typical lethal dose ranges for most barbiturates, in equivalent ratio of Rat
LD50 doses.

Pentobarbital, 2,000-3,000mg
Secobarbital, 2,500-3,500mg

Amobarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butalbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Propylbarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butabarbital, 4,000-5,000mg

Allobarbital, 5,000-6,000mg
Brallobarbital 5,000-6,000mg

Butobarbital 8,000-10,000mg
Phenobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Cyclobarbital 15,000-20,000mg

Methylphenobarbital 20,000-30,000mg

Some interesting side info:

Cyclobarbital is also called Tetrahydrophenobarbital which is quite
surprising, as I'd have thought it would be in it's own group of side-chains
as far as barbiturates go, but it turns out that Cyclobarbital is actually a
short-acting version of Phenobarbital. And since Cyclobarbital has fairly
strong hypnotic effects at oral doses above 200mg it is surprising that this
drug isn't that lethal. Being a short-acting barbiturate, I used to think it
was very lethal but that opinion has changed radically due to new
information. What is also surprising is the fact that quite a few people
have taken massive quantities of this drug and survived, even in combination
with alcohol and other CNS depressants, and some survived even without
medical intervention. This drug is not advised for self-deliverance except
in combination with the plastic bag or Darvon.

Strangely enough, this seems to answer the question - why can't you obtain
Amobarbital, Secobarbital or Pentobarbital but can still obtain
Phenobarbital or Cyclobarbital?

The answer - they are less toxic!
x
2003-10-21 17:45:05 UTC
Post by K Dog
Just wanted to update on the info (re: Barbiturates: Toxic Doses)
Typical lethal dose ranges for most barbiturates, in equivalent ratio of Rat
LD50 doses.
Hi KD

Thanks for the update but there are still a few problems.

Firstly, we are not rats. I know this is obvious but despite being
mammals there is likely to be a (significant?) difference between
metabolic rates etc. Sometimes older literature quotes LD50 data for
larger mammals (eg dogs, rabbits etc). Perhaps these may give a more
accurate idea - not sure.

Secondly, LD50 is the dose required to kill 50% of the rats tested. So
the dose wasn't sufficient to kill the other half. It's still a 50/50
thing. I'm not even sure that the dose:death relationship is linear,
so it is not necessarily possible to extrapolate. I have read so many
conflicting stories about how a certain dose of a certain substance
was successful for one person but not for another. Even between
individuals of the same species there are so many (too many?)
variables to consider.

So it is the same old problem of lack of information.

Sorry I don't know the answers to these questions myself.

Good luck with your research.


Shine On
Miriamne
2003-10-21 21:01:22 UTC
Hi KD,

How I wish there were a way to extract the butalbital from phrenilin and
leave the dreaded acetaminophen behind ..... sigh.

Been away for a bit. Had knee surgery yesterday. Wouldn't it be nice if
they could fix the rest of me. Then I wouldn't need to be here..... sigh
(again).

Thanks for all the info. I understand the limitations of LD50 information,
but I also recognize that it's the best information we can get where drug
lethality is concerned. Everything else is anecdotal.

- Miriamne
Post by K Dog
Just wanted to update on the info (re: Barbiturates: Toxic Doses)
Typical lethal dose ranges for most barbiturates, in equivalent ratio of Rat
LD50 doses.
Pentobarbital, 2,000-3,000mg
Secobarbital, 2,500-3,500mg
Amobarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butalbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Propylbarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butabarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Allobarbital, 5,000-6,000mg
Brallobarbital 5,000-6,000mg
Butobarbital 8,000-10,000mg
Phenobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Cyclobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Methylphenobarbital 20,000-30,000mg
Cyclobarbital is also called Tetrahydrophenobarbital which is quite
surprising, as I'd have thought it would be in it's own group of side-chains
as far as barbiturates go, but it turns out that Cyclobarbital is actually a
short-acting version of Phenobarbital. And since Cyclobarbital has fairly
strong hypnotic effects at oral doses above 200mg it is surprising that this
drug isn't that lethal. Being a short-acting barbiturate, I used to think it
was very lethal but that opinion has changed radically due to new
information. What is also surprising is the fact that quite a few people
have taken massive quantities of this drug and survived, even in combination
with alcohol and other CNS depressants, and some survived even without
medical intervention. This drug is not advised for self-deliverance except
in combination with the plastic bag or Darvon.
Strangely enough, this seems to answer the question - why can't you obtain
Amobarbital, Secobarbital or Pentobarbital but can still obtain
Phenobarbital or Cyclobarbital?
The answer - they are less toxic!
LOKI76
2003-10-21 23:23:37 UTC
Post by K Dog
Just wanted to update on the info (re: Barbiturates: Toxic Doses)
Typical lethal dose ranges for most barbiturates, in equivalent ratio of Rat
LD50 doses.
Pentobarbital, 2,000-3,000mg
Secobarbital, 2,500-3,500mg
Amobarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butalbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Propylbarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butabarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Allobarbital, 5,000-6,000mg
Brallobarbital 5,000-6,000mg
Butobarbital 8,000-10,000mg
Phenobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Cyclobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Methylphenobarbital 20,000-30,000mg
Cyclobarbital is also called Tetrahydrophenobarbital which is quite
surprising, as I'd have thought it would be in it's own group of side-chains
as far as barbiturates go, but it turns out that Cyclobarbital is actually a
short-acting version of Phenobarbital. And since Cyclobarbital has fairly
strong hypnotic effects at oral doses above 200mg it is surprising that this
drug isn't that lethal. Being a short-acting barbiturate, I used to think it
was very lethal but that opinion has changed radically due to new
information. What is also surprising is the fact that quite a few people
have taken massive quantities of this drug and survived, even in combination
with alcohol and other CNS depressants, and some survived even without
medical intervention. This drug is not advised for self-deliverance except
in combination with the plastic bag or Darvon.
Strangely enough, this seems to answer the question - why can't you obtain
Amobarbital, Secobarbital or Pentobarbital but can still obtain
Phenobarbital or Cyclobarbital?
The answer - they are less toxic!
Tell me, Why does evry1 post info about barbiturates, when they are so
UNattainable. I have searched all over the web for them and all i got
was "controlled substance." And asking the wrong doctor for them
without a good reason could put you in the Loony Bin. If getting, lets
say Nembutal, was so easy, I would've left this god-forsakin place
years ago. Of course its much easier for a teenager to get an assault
rifle and shoot up a school, than for use to "Peacfully" end our
existance with these drugs. Wake-up America!
AD
Max Biancofiore
2003-10-22 20:18:27 UTC
I've just ordered 25g of Phenobarbital. Does that mean I'm gonna die,
then? God, I hope so.

Max
Blue Heaven
2003-10-22 22:51:59 UTC
Post by LOKI76
Post by K Dog
Just wanted to update on the info (re: Barbiturates: Toxic Doses)
Typical lethal dose ranges for most barbiturates, in equivalent ratio of Rat
LD50 doses.
Pentobarbital, 2,000-3,000mg
Secobarbital, 2,500-3,500mg
Amobarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butalbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Propylbarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Butabarbital, 4,000-5,000mg
Allobarbital, 5,000-6,000mg
Brallobarbital 5,000-6,000mg
Butobarbital 8,000-10,000mg
Phenobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Cyclobarbital 15,000-20,000mg
Methylphenobarbital 20,000-30,000mg
Cyclobarbital is also called Tetrahydrophenobarbital which is quite
surprising, as I'd have thought it would be in it's own group of side-chains
as far as barbiturates go, but it turns out that Cyclobarbital is actually a
short-acting version of Phenobarbital. And since Cyclobarbital has fairly
strong hypnotic effects at oral doses above 200mg it is surprising that this
drug isn't that lethal. Being a short-acting barbiturate, I used to think it
was very lethal but that opinion has changed radically due to new
information. What is also surprising is the fact that quite a few people
have taken massive quantities of this drug and survived, even in combination
with alcohol and other CNS depressants, and some survived even without
medical intervention. This drug is not advised for self-deliverance except
in combination with the plastic bag or Darvon.
Strangely enough, this seems to answer the question - why can't you obtain
Amobarbital, Secobarbital or Pentobarbital but can still obtain
Phenobarbital or Cyclobarbital?
The answer - they are less toxic!
Tell me, Why does evry1 post info about barbiturates, when they are so
UNattainable. I have searched all over the web for them and all i got
was "controlled substance." And asking the wrong doctor for them
without a good reason could put you in the Loony Bin. If getting, lets
say Nembutal, was so easy, I would've left this god-forsakin place
years ago. Of course its much easier for a teenager to get an assault
rifle and shoot up a school, than for use to "Peacfully" end our
existance with these drugs. Wake-up America!
AD
I agree there. Scripting me some nice peaceful nembies would spare
some poor soul from scraping off the half a brain that I blow all over
the bathroom wall.