Discussion:
Helium method- found a flow control regulator for party balloon helium tanks
(too old to reply)
Eagle
2009-06-19 11:24:31 UTC
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There used to be a very knowledgable poster here called Carbon who
hasn't posted since the end of March. If he went, god bless him. In
July of 2008 he finally found a way to construct a "flow control
regulator" for the party balloon helium tank variety. With parts you
could buy mainly at home depot and some other places. If the helium
tube tent method turns out to have problems with it, I will consider
constructing his flow control regulator and use it with an exit
plastic bag. I will test it out first with one tank. Then do it with
another when I was sure it worked. I haven't exactly read through all
the parts you have to assemble and haven't figured out if it's really
that easy to build, but it looks much easier than the one that doctor
builds in the Peaceful Pill Handbook. Here is the post he made:



On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:04:10 -0700 (PDT), Carbon <***@black72.com>
wrote:

I could hardly be happier right now---I've just built and tested a
simple, inexpensive flow restrictor for those "balloon kit" helium
tanks, and it works! Best of all, I was able to get all the parts I
needed (save for one tool) at Home Depot---no need to dodge questions
at the local industrial-supply store.

I'm so psyched. I basically have my method now, and am just a couple
of trial runs away from finally being free of this useless existence.

Anyone who's interested in the details, keep reading.

--------

Bob Boling designed the flow restrictor as part of a homebrew oxygen
meter for SCUBA divers and described it on his webpage (see section C,
"Flow Restrictor"):

http://members.cox.net/bee2/

Conceptually it's very similar to the flow restrictor described in
"The Peaceful Pill Handbook", but uses parts that are easy to find in
North America.

Here's what I used:

- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector

- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug

- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler

- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw

These four parts came from Home Depot; the first three were in their
air-tools section. Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.

Here's how I put it together:

- I attached the quick-disconnect coupler to the SAE flare adapter,
which I then attached to the tank (after removing the balloon-inflater
nozzle). I used white Teflon tape on both connections. Home Depot
sells these couplers in three different kinds: industrial, automotive,
and universal. I originally tried the universal one but found that
under pressure, the plug would pop out on its own. The industrial one
seems to "grip" the plug much more tightly and I haven't had the same
problem. Note that with this coupler the sleeve *must* be pulled back
to allow the plug to be inserted---this appears to be by design, but
it's the first one I've seen like this.

- I bought a tap-and-die set at the local Canadian Tire (a Canadian
chain of big-box stores that are a cross between a hardware and a
department store; Wal-Mart is probably the closest U.S. equivalent)
and used the 8-32 tap to cut a screw thread on the inside of the hose-
barb nozzle. This was the right size for the Husky-brand pack of 2
hose barbs that I bought, but I noticed that the equivalent hose barbs
sold at Canadian Tire had a larger opening and probably would have
required a different tap size and thus a different screw. I guess
every hose barb is a bit different.

I'd never used a tap before but it was super simple: Put the tap
itself in the tap handle, line the tap up with the inside opening of
the nozzle, and start turning. It didn't take a lot of effort either.

- I took the machine screw and screwed it into the nozzle. The same
screw is available with either a flat or a rounded head; I bought the
flat-head variety as it looked like it would fit more snugly, but I
don't know if it's important.

- I wrapped the threads of the NPT end of the quick-disconnect plug
with Teflon tape, then screwed it into the nozzle. This gave me the
finished "regulator", with a 1/4" hose barb on one end, a 1/4" quick-
disconnect plug on the other end, and a screw in the middle blocking
most of the airflow through it.

- I placed the hose over the regulator's nozzle and secured it with
the hose clamp.

- Finally, I plugged the regulator into the quick-disconnect coupler
attached to the tank.

Now, on to the testing. I did just as Bob described on his page,
using an emptied two-litre pop bottle and a plastic oil-change pan I
picked up a while back at an auto store. I found that:

- To block the flow of helium adequately, the screw inside the
regulator has to be screwed all the way into the nozzle, fairly
snugly; and

- Despite what Bob says on the webpage, I had to use Teflon tape on
the two parts of the regulator to keep the helium from leaking out
from the joint, even just for testing.

For the testing itself, I placed everything except the helium tank in
my bathtub, filled the bottle and the pan with water, placed the hose
inside the bottle, then quickly positioned the bottle upside-down in
the pan. I'd already placed my watch on the edge of the tub. When
the watch's second hand hit one of the 15-second marks, I'd quickly
open the valve on the helium tank all the way, then watch as the
bottle emptied and make a note of the time when the first bubbles came
out from the bottom of the bottle.

When I started, the pressure in the helium tank was at 140 PSI (I'd
already used some of the helium testing the regulator as I assembled
it). I did three trials and got results of 11 seconds, 12 seconds,
and 11 seconds for an average time of 11.7 seconds to displace two
litres of water. To convert this to a flow rate in litres per minute,
I:

- Divided 2 by 11.7, to get the number of litres displaced in one
second; then

- Multipled that value by 60, to get the number of litres displaced in
one minute.

This worked out to a flow rate of about 10.3 litres per minute, which
is a bit low compared to the usually-stated target of 15 litres per
minute. But I think this will be fine, because:

- The tank was already partially depleted (the pressure was down from
260 PSI when it was bought);

- I expect to use a larger, "50 balloon" tank for my exit, which I
believe is rated at a higher pressure and thus will have a higher
"natural" flow rate;

- Recommendations on the flow rate to use vary widely, down to as low
as 6 litres per minute, which suggests to me there is no real need for
precision here; and

- The regulator is tricky to adjust anyway, since just slightly
turning the screw can cause a significant increase in the flow rate.

Carbon
Eagle
2009-06-19 12:03:41 UTC
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Hmm in March when I talked about regulating the flow of the helium he
replied but never mentioned anything about that flow regulator he came
up with. In fact after that post in July of his about finding parts to
make it he never mentioned it again. I don't think it was successful.
Back to the tube tent idea.

Let me add there's only one good way of using these party balloon
helium tanks in the tube tent and that is leaving on the stock rubber
nozzle that comes on it, opening up the knob all the way, and
inserting something underneath the rubber nozzle so it stays up and
helium continues to flow out till the tank empties. If you were to
take out that rubber nozzle and open the knob all the way the helium
would just burst out like crazy, way too fast than you even want I
think.
tjh001
2009-06-20 21:10:40 UTC
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Post by Eagle
Hmm in March when I talked about regulating the flow of the helium he
replied but never mentioned anything about that flow regulator he came
up with. In fact after that post in July of his about finding parts to
make it he never mentioned it again. I don't think it was successful.
Back to the tube tent idea.
Let me add there's only one good way of using these party balloon
helium tanks in the tube tent and that is leaving on the stock rubber
nozzle that comes on it, opening up the knob all the way, and
inserting something underneath the rubber nozzle so it stays up and
helium continues to flow out till the tank empties. If you were to
take out that rubber nozzle and open the knob all the way the helium
would just burst out like crazy, way too fast than you even want I
think.
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
Eagle
2009-06-20 22:03:42 UTC
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On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
parkour32
2009-06-21 02:45:22 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
I'm trying to build one and it seems the hardest part to find is the
jet. In the pph, he says to use a camping stove jet and I've found
some sites with camping stove maintenace repair kits that comes with
jets. But, idk because he said something like HM to use which is an
australian brand i guess.
Peter Pan
2009-06-21 04:55:12 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Eagle
2009-06-21 05:27:38 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
Peter Pan
2009-06-21 05:44:20 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
tjh001
2009-06-21 15:45:48 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
So the balloon helium cylinders shut automatically when hand is
removed? if i set it to come out at full speed how long would the gas
last?
tjh001
2009-06-21 15:47:20 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
So the balloon helium cylinders shut automatically when hand is
removed? if i set it to come out at full speed how long would the gas
last?
tjh001
2009-06-21 15:48:17 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
also do any of these look promising?

http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
Eagle
2009-06-21 16:31:09 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
also do any of these look promising?
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
Those are commercial grade tanks, and have more helium, so yes they're
good but nitrogen's even better I think. You can get them through the
internet I think but not nitrogen (I think it might be flammable). But
they usually don't come in discrete boxes. You can also just buy the
empty tank and go refill them somewhere. Flow control regulators are
common for these tanks, so you won't have a problem finding one for
them. You need the regulator so the flow stream comes out steady until
the tank runs out. You will have plenty of helium time with these
bigger tanks and a flow control regulator.
tjh001
2009-06-21 17:56:57 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
also do any of these look promising?
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
Those are commercial grade tanks, and have more helium, so yes they're
good but nitrogen's even better I think. You can get them through the
internet I think but not nitrogen (I think it might be flammable). But
they usually don't come in discrete boxes. You can also just buy the
empty tank and go refill them somewhere. Flow control regulators are
common for these tanks, so you won't have a problem finding one for
them. You need the regulator so the flow stream comes out steady until
the tank runs out. You will have plenty of helium time with these
bigger tanks and a flow control regulator.
which if any of those regulators will fit with a balloontime cylinder?
Peter Pan
2009-06-21 19:33:56 UTC
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Post by Eagle
Post by tjh001
also do any of these look promising?
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
Those are commercial grade tanks, and have more helium, so yes they're
good but nitrogen's even better I think. You can get them through the
internet I think but not nitrogen (I think it might be flammable). But
they usually don't come in discrete boxes. You can also just buy the
empty tank and go refill them somewhere. Flow control regulators are
common for these tanks, so you won't have a problem finding one for
them. You need the regulator so the flow stream comes out steady until
the tank runs out. You will have plenty of helium time with these
bigger tanks and a flow control regulator.
which if any of those regulators will fit with a balloontime cylinder?

none, but why would you want to? why not just get a commercial tank AND
regulator (and have it delivered, look in the yellow pages for welding
supplies, while most deliver only to commercial places, some will deliver to
private residences/garages)?
Peter Pan
2009-06-21 19:28:19 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:55:12 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sat, 20 Jun 2009 14:10:40 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
what is wrong with just turning on the flow from the tank? can i pay
you to make one and send it to me,im hopeless with these kinds of
things?
I don't know how to make one. I suppose one can just leave the rubber
nozzle on, open the knob all the way, push the nozzle upwards and
place something underneath it so helium continues to flow out
steadily. I haven't timed how many minutes of helium you will get this
way. Flow control is very important with these tanks, if you take out
the rubber nozzle, the helium will just burst out. And if you try to
turn the knob just a little to moderate the flow, the helium will
probably stop really soon and require you to turn the knob more to get
more helium out (which you can't do when you're passed out).
okay, silly q, but why not get a real (helium/nitrogen/etc) tank and
regulator instead of putzing with the party balloon tanks? is it cost? a
prefilled tank and regulator costs under $250, and has has between 5 -8
times as much helium as the $79 party balloon tanks with no regulator, so
why even putz with the party tanks? and be sure you have enuf gas? i don't
understand, cept they can't be shipped (high pressure prefilled tanks can't
be shipped), but easy enuf to buy a prefilled tank locally...
Are you talking to parkour or are you talking to me? Because I told
you yesterday I am disabled and can't travel alone to get one of
those.
either/neither/others/lurkers (this is a newsgroup not private email), and
generically to those that only think inside the box, and assume they can
ONLY do the helium thing if they have a balloon tank and build (Or find one
prebuilt) a regulator instead of other tanks that are available and work
fine
also do any of these look promising?
http://www.co2-canisters.com/index1.html
Those are commercial grade tanks, and have more helium, so yes they're
good but nitrogen's even better I think. You can get them through the
internet I think but not nitrogen (I think it might be flammable). But
they usually don't come in discrete boxes. You can also just buy the
empty tank and go refill them somewhere. Flow control regulators are
common for these tanks, so you won't have a problem finding one for
them. You need the regulator so the flow stream comes out steady until
the tank runs out. You will have plenty of helium time with these
bigger tanks and a flow control regulator.
high pressure tanks, pre-filled, even non flammable gasses (like nitrogen),
can't be shipped via common parcel carriers....
once again, why not a commercial tank and regulator? i called, ordered the
tank and reg over the phone, and could have had it delivered to my house for
$50, but being the cheapie that I am (and still able to drive, just not
walk), drove to the commercial gas place (welding supply) to pick it up....
they not only had prefilled tanks of helium, but argon, nitrogen, etc (9
different gasses), walked(hobbled) around the sales area, looking at the
stuff a CTB Paradise/Warehouse!
Eagle
2009-06-21 20:38:33 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:28:19 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
high pressure tanks, pre-filled, even non flammable gasses (like nitrogen),
can't be shipped via common parcel carriers....
once again, why not a commercial tank and regulator? i called, ordered the
tank and reg over the phone, and could have had it delivered to my house for
$50, but being the cheapie that I am (and still able to drive, just not
walk), drove to the commercial gas place (welding supply) to pick it up....
they not only had prefilled tanks of helium, but argon, nitrogen, etc (9
different gasses), walked(hobbled) around the sales area, looking at the
stuff a CTB Paradise/Warehouse!
They will deliver "BalloonTime" tanks through the mail. I'm not so
sure about the commercial big ones, but I don't think they deliver
them discretely in a box.
Peter Pan
2009-06-21 20:53:06 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:28:19 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
high pressure tanks, pre-filled, even non flammable gasses (like nitrogen),
can't be shipped via common parcel carriers....
once again, why not a commercial tank and regulator? i called, ordered the
tank and reg over the phone, and could have had it delivered to my house for
$50, but being the cheapie that I am (and still able to drive, just not
walk), drove to the commercial gas place (welding supply) to pick it up....
they not only had prefilled tanks of helium, but argon, nitrogen, etc (9
different gasses), walked(hobbled) around the sales area, looking at the
stuff a CTB Paradise/Warehouse!
They will deliver "BalloonTime" tanks through the mail. I'm not so
sure about the commercial big ones, but I don't think they deliver
them discretely in a box.
baloon time tanks are very low pressure (under 800 PSI), and not subject to
the laws/regulations for higher pressure
tjh001
2009-06-22 00:02:27 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 15:28:19 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
high pressure tanks, pre-filled, even non flammable gasses (like nitrogen),
can't be shipped via common parcel carriers....
once again, why not a commercial tank and regulator? i called, ordered the
tank and reg over the phone, and could have had it delivered to my house for
$50, but being the cheapie that I am (and still able to drive, just not
walk), drove to the commercial gas place (welding supply) to pick it up....
they not only had prefilled tanks of helium, but argon, nitrogen, etc (9
different gasses), walked(hobbled) around the sales area, looking at the
stuff a CTB Paradise/Warehouse!
They will deliver "BalloonTime" tanks through the mail. I'm not so
sure about the commercial big ones, but I don't think they deliver
them discretely in a box.
baloon time tanks are very low pressure (under 800 PSI), and not subject to
the laws/regulations for higher pressure
so no-one knows of any gas regulators that can be bought and attached
to a balloon time cylinder?
Eagle
2009-06-22 01:32:21 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 17:02:27 -0700 (PDT), tjh001
Post by tjh001
so no-one knows of any gas regulators that can be bought and attached
to a balloon time cylinder?
No but there is a way to regulate the flow and that is just leave the
rubber nozzle on, open the knob all the way and push the rubber nozzle
up or down so helium comes out (as if you were going to fill a
balloon). You could put something underneath it so it stayed put in
the same position and helium kept coming out, but it comes out pretty
quickly so I don't know how many minutes the tank would last. You
could buy two tanks and test one out to see how many minutes it lasts,
but I doubt it would be enough. You need at least a good 6 minutes to
make sure of brain death. I'm guessing the tank would give 3-4
minutes, not enough time. Just a guess.

Peter Pan's always saying why don't people get a commercial grade
helium tank, and I'm guessing like me you are disabled and can't go
alone to get it. I would try the tube tent helium method so you can
still use the "Balloon Time" tanks. Read the posts we've made about
this in the last week, we've talked about using a tube tent.
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 01:48:43 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
They will deliver "BalloonTime" tanks through the mail. I'm not so
sure about the commercial big ones, but I don't think they deliver
them discretely in a box.
baloon time tanks are very low pressure (under 800 PSI), and not subject to
the laws/regulations for higher pressure
so no-one knows of any gas regulators that can be bought and attached
to a balloon time cylinder?

probably not bought, not sold as a gas cylinder (it's a tank, see their ads
or website http://www.balloontime.com, they specifically say it's a
disposable TANK, and not a compressed gas cylinder, they sell kits and ala
cart tanks), made with non standard parts to get around laws/regulations
(since it's not sold as a compressed gas cylinder, doesn't have to meet the
regs for compressed gas cylinders), make your own or get a standard
cylinder.....

ooops, looks like I overguessed at the PSI of those tanks, way way lower
than 800
from the balloon time faq at
http://www.balloontime.com/display.php?page=faq

What is the working pressure of Balloon Time tanks?
Balloon Time tanks operate at a working pressure of 260 psi and are
successfully leak-tested at a minimum of 325 psi to ensure quality. In
addition, each Balloon Time tank has a patented flow restriction safety
device, reducing the helium flow rate and improving the safety of the
product.


if you happen to have a legris nearby or can order from
(http://www.legris.com), you could possibly use something like this...

7770 - IN-LINE FLOW CONTROL

http://www.legris.com/Legris_ecom/RechercherReferencesTypeArticle.do?codeActivite=BP&codeGroupe=04&codeFamille=03&codeSousFamille=06&codeTypeArticle=7770
Eagle
2009-06-22 02:55:39 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:48:43 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
if you happen to have a legris nearby or can order from
(http://www.legris.com), you could possibly use something like this...
7770 - IN-LINE FLOW CONTROL
http://www.legris.com/Legris_ecom/RechercherReferencesTypeArticle.do?codeActivite=BP&codeGroupe=04&codeFamille=03&codeSousFamille=06&codeTypeArticle=7770
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 03:33:22 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 21:48:43 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
if you happen to have a legris nearby or can order from
(http://www.legris.com), you could possibly use something like this...
7770 - IN-LINE FLOW CONTROL
http://www.legris.com/Legris_ecom/RechercherReferencesTypeArticle.do?codeActivite=BP&codeGroupe=04&codeFamille=03&codeSousFamille=06&codeTypeArticle=7770
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
it's in line (fits in a hose at each end), low pressure, and probably easier
than making one

they do have high pressure ones too, but they are made for approx 2000 PSI
compressed gas, wouldn't make sense for this...

point is, if you want to use a tube tent, you don't need a regulator, just
unscrew the black/plastic only on when pressed balloon filler thingy, and
turn it on.... low enuf pressure that at only 260 psi won't blow up the
tent...
Eagle
2009-06-22 04:37:25 UTC
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On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:33:22 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
it's in line (fits in a hose at each end), low pressure, and probably easier
than making one
they do have high pressure ones too, but they are made for approx 2000 PSI
compressed gas, wouldn't make sense for this...
point is, if you want to use a tube tent, you don't need a regulator, just
unscrew the black/plastic only on when pressed balloon filler thingy, and
turn it on.... low enuf pressure that at only 260 psi won't blow up the
tent...
Yeah I'm still a little unsure about how to seal a tube tent. I found
a flimsy plastic one, looks like a giant garbage bag but I need to
find out how to seal both open ends. Possibly a heat gun on low will
melt big plastic bags to either end? There's also the problem of
getting the most oxygen out that you can before, I think there are
some ways but I still haven't read up on them.
parkour32
2009-06-22 17:49:35 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:33:22 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
it's in line (fits in a hose at each end), low pressure, and probably easier
than making one
they do have high pressure ones too, but they are made for approx 2000 PSI
compressed gas, wouldn't make sense for this...
point is, if you want to use a tube tent, you don't need a regulator, just
unscrew the black/plastic only on when pressed balloon filler thingy, and
turn it on....  low enuf pressure that at only 260 psi won't blow up the
tent...
Yeah I'm still a little unsure about how to seal a tube tent. I found
a flimsy plastic one, looks like a giant garbage bag but I need to
find out how to seal both open ends. Possibly a heat gun on low will
melt big plastic bags to either end? There's also the problem of
getting the most oxygen out that you can before, I think there are
some ways but I still haven't read up on them.
Any idea on how to use the high pressure tanks like how would you
check the level of gas in the tank and I also read that some of those
tanks since theyre rented can be contaminated. they usually rent them
out for like 5 years though. they sell the tanks in cf but im trying
to figure out how to convert that to litres because i think the
optimal flow rate is from 15 to 20 l/min. it might also be hard to
attach the hose to a bag because it is a lot heavier than oxygen
tubing but i guess a lot of duct tape might work or attach a lighter
hose to the ohter one. I'm surprised that final exit nor pph have gone
into detail about commercial tanks because they already come with a
regulator and it seems like it would be easier to use.
Eagle
2009-06-22 18:44:01 UTC
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT), parkour32
Post by parkour32
Any idea on how to use the high pressure tanks like how would you
check the level of gas in the tank and I also read that some of those
tanks since theyre rented can be contaminated. they usually rent them
out for like 5 years though. they sell the tanks in cf but im trying
to figure out how to convert that to litres because i think the
optimal flow rate is from 15 to 20 l/min. it might also be hard to
attach the hose to a bag because it is a lot heavier than oxygen
tubing but i guess a lot of duct tape might work or attach a lighter
hose to the ohter one. I'm surprised that final exit nor pph have gone
into detail about commercial tanks because they already come with a
regulator and it seems like it would be easier to use.
Like PPH says there are pressure test gauges. It looks to me as some
flow control regulators also display the pressure of the tank but I'm
not sure. If you're worried about contamination you can always buy a
brand new one. They sell them on Ebay and Amazon I think. If you ask
me, both Final Exit and PPH failed in the Helium method chapter, they
talk about "Balloon Time" tanks when there's no flow control
regulators for them. There might be one that Peter Pan found but I'm
not sure if it'll really work. I hope they got the other chapters on
drugs right because I'm considering those too.
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 19:25:37 UTC
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"parkour32" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:843db947-f824-4499-aa99-***@g19g2000yql.googlegroups.com...


Any idea on how to use the high pressure tanks like how would you
check the level of gas in the tank and I also read that some of those
tanks since theyre rented can be contaminated. they usually rent them
out for like 5 years though. they sell the tanks in cf but im trying
to figure out how to convert that to litres because i think the
optimal flow rate is from 15 to 20 l/min. it might also be hard to
attach the hose to a bag because it is a lot heavier than oxygen
tubing but i guess a lot of duct tape might work or attach a lighter
hose to the ohter one. I'm surprised that final exit nor pph have gone
into detail about commercial tanks because they already come with a
regulator and it seems like it would be easier to use.

two/three things, you don't necessarily have to rent a commercial tank, you
can buy some of the smaller ones prefilled, and not just old pre-rented, or
buy them empty (even online) and have them filled...
commercial tanks do NOT usually come with regulators, you just screw your
regulator/valve to the tank....
they make a large number of things for a commercial tank, (I happen to like
an adjustable two stage regulator with guages, first stage has a guage for
the tank and drops the pressue to 100PSI, second stage also has a pressure
guage and an adjustment from 1 to 25 PSI, was $69)

for an additional 5 bucks or so, you can get a brass balloon filler (ie
screws right onto the 2nd stage output, and tubing goes right onto that, ps
consider other tubing BESIDES med oxy tubes, I like The plastc tubing in
icemaker install kits, under $10 at most hardware/home improvement stores,
under $8 at walmart)

as for contamination, medical quality is 99% pure, commercial is 98% pure,
really gonna worry about 1%?
(ps just checked, those balloontime things are listed in their own faq/specs
as only 95-96% pure.... less than commercial!)

no clue on how to convert between litres/min and Cubic Feet,
but a q for you, if you want to use a tent instead of a bag, why worry about
regulation or constant flow, don't you just want to flood the tent with the
max amount? I think you only may want a regulator for the balloontime
tanks/commercial tanks and an exit bag, and not a tent.... sure doesn't
sound like you need a regulator/constant flow device for a tent
parkour32
2009-06-22 20:36:42 UTC
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Post by parkour32
Any idea on how to use the high pressure tanks like how would you
check the level of gas in the tank and I also read that some of those
tanks since theyre rented can be contaminated. they usually rent them
out for like 5 years though. they sell the tanks in cf but im trying
to figure out how to convert that to litres because i think the
optimal flow rate is from 15 to 20 l/min. it might also be hard to
attach the hose to a bag because it is a lot heavier than oxygen
tubing but i guess a lot of duct tape might work or attach a lighter
hose to the ohter one. I'm surprised that final exit nor pph have gone
into detail about commercial tanks because they already come with a
regulator and it seems like it would be easier to use.
two/three things, you  don't necessarily have to rent a commercial tank, you
can buy some of the smaller ones prefilled, and not just old pre-rented, or
buy them empty (even online) and have them filled...
commercial tanks do NOT usually come with regulators, you just screw your
regulator/valve to the tank....
they make a large number of things for a commercial tank, (I happen to like
an adjustable two stage regulator with guages, first stage has a guage for
the tank and drops the pressue to 100PSI, second stage also has a pressure
guage and an adjustment from 1 to 25 PSI, was $69)
for an additional 5 bucks or so, you can get a brass balloon filler (ie
screws right onto the 2nd stage output, and tubing goes right onto that, ps
consider other tubing BESIDES med oxy tubes, I like The plastc tubing in
icemaker install kits, under $10 at most hardware/home improvement stores,
under $8 at walmart)
as for contamination, medical quality is 99% pure, commercial is 98% pure,
really gonna worry about 1%?
(ps just checked, those balloontime things are listed in their own faq/specs
as only 95-96% pure.... less than commercial!)
no clue on how to convert between litres/min and Cubic Feet,
but a q for you, if you want to use a tent instead of a bag, why worry about
regulation or constant flow, don't you just want to flood the tent with the
max amount? I think you only may want a regulator for the balloontime
tanks/commercial tanks and an exit bag,  and not a tent.... sure doesn't
sound like you need a regulator/constant flow device for a tent
No, I plan on using a bag but have thought about using a bag and a
tent that way if the bag falls off somehow (i heard that using helium
causes twitching) i would still be breathing helium. Anyway, I was
saying to tape a second tube to the bag since it doenst have to be
airtight and take a breath of nitrogen and then exhale into the tube
to prevent co2 buildup and do that until i pass out i was thinking to
get the 230 cf tank i figure that would be good for about 15 or 20
minutes.
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 21:34:54 UTC
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"parkour32" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:352886ae-1623-4b26-9061-***@n4g2000vba.googlegroups.com...


No, I plan on using a bag but have thought about using a bag and a
tent that way if the bag falls off somehow (i heard that using helium
causes twitching) i would still be breathing helium. Anyway, I was
saying to tape a second tube to the bag since it doenst have to be
airtight and take a breath of nitrogen and then exhale into the tube
to prevent co2 buildup and do that until i pass out i was thinking to
get the 230 cf tank i figure that would be good for about 15 or 20
minutes.

sorry, i bad, thought you were the guy that only wanted to use a tent, not a
bag
at any rate a 230 cf tank is way more (and too big/too heavy, and did i say
way more?), even the big baloon tanks, are only about 14 cf, and my 80 cf
(biggest i could buy, not rent, and still move around) is big/bulky/heavy
hard to move handle, can't imagine something = to 3 of em! at any rate (I
know i said big/overkill is good, but that is
big*big*big/overkill*overkill*overkill)


too lazy too look at the box, so will just paste an old post with the
regulator i use
from a previous post... and that will give me a 4 to 8 HOURS of low-flow...
These are welding things, ever hear of a welding torch, hooked to a tank,
that only burns for 15-20 minutes? i would think you can get way more than
15 or 20 minutes out of such a big tank...

<start paste>
as for the exit stuff, not only got a regulator, but way more helium than i
need (better too much than not enuf, regulator is for welding, should give
me about 4-8 hours of low flow)

here's a link to the regulator (actually a whole bunch of products, with
pictures, this is a WEM 0781-9167 REGULATOR, INERT GAS 250-80-580 MEDIUM
DUTY, about 2/3 way down the page)

http://weldmark.com/public/products/search_category.asp?cat=Gas%20Apparatus

again, you can try and make one for the party tank, or just say screw it and
get one thats premade but more than you need.... i just went for
overkill/more than i need, cost a bit more, but what the heck, way cheaper
than a new seat for my wheelchair......

<end paste>

at any rate, it is an inert gas two stage adjustable reg with pressure
dials, has a standard compressed gas fitting, and should work with various
types of inert gas (helium, nitrogen, argon, etc)

the helium gas is usually used in welding, while the nitrogen gas is usually
used in food service (different places for finding stuff)

maybe mixing places to look is a good thing?
parkour32
2009-06-22 17:52:39 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:33:22 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
it's in line (fits in a hose at each end), low pressure, and probably easier
than making one
they do have high pressure ones too, but they are made for approx 2000 PSI
compressed gas, wouldn't make sense for this...
point is, if you want to use a tube tent, you don't need a regulator, just
unscrew the black/plastic only on when pressed balloon filler thingy, and
turn it on....  low enuf pressure that at only 260 psi won't blow up the
tent...
Yeah I'm still a little unsure about how to seal a tube tent. I found
a flimsy plastic one, looks like a giant garbage bag but I need to
find out how to seal both open ends. Possibly a heat gun on low will
melt big plastic bags to either end? There's also the problem of
getting the most oxygen out that you can before, I think there are
some ways but I still haven't read up on them.
anotehr idea i had was since according to pph you can put a hose
through the bottom of the bag to fill it up why not have another tube
going out that you can breathe out the co2 out of that way you couldnt
breathe any in
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 18:26:40 UTC
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"parkour32" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:28d8c60d-841c-453f-94ae-***@k38g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...


anotehr idea i had was since according to pph you can put a hose
through the bottom of the bag to fill it up why not have another tube
going out that you can breathe out the co2 out of that way you couldnt
breathe any in

you can (till you pass out)... use your bodies natural check valve (ie
breathe in thru your nose, out thru your mouth/tube going out, when you pass
out and no longer have the tube in your mouth, no prob, since you aren't
breathing o2 anymore you aren't producing co2)

that is of course assuming you use something like a rubber
band/elastic/garter belt/etc to hold the bag to your neck, and don't try to
tape it and make it airtight.... (ie, still an exit bag, but amazing/amuzing
that some people still think *all* exit bags and are/use airtight/asphysxia
instead of inert gas/hypoxia)
Eagle
2009-06-23 02:31:53 UTC
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:26:40 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
you can (till you pass out)... use your bodies natural check valve (ie
breathe in thru your nose, out thru your mouth/tube going out, when you pass
out and no longer have the tube in your mouth, no prob, since you aren't
breathing o2 anymore you aren't producing co2)
I didn't know there was a body natural check valve like you say. I'm a
mouth breather (so I have my doubts about this) and assumed I'll be
doing most of my breathing in and out through my mouth. That's why i
suggested you shouldn't put a tube in your mouth to breathe out C02.
Peter Pan
2009-06-23 04:07:51 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:26:40 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
you can (till you pass out)... use your bodies natural check valve (ie
breathe in thru your nose, out thru your mouth/tube going out, when you pass
out and no longer have the tube in your mouth, no prob, since you aren't
breathing o2 anymore you aren't producing co2)
I didn't know there was a body natural check valve like you say. I'm a
mouth breather (so I have my doubts about this) and assumed I'll be
doing most of my breathing in and out through my mouth. That's why i
suggested you shouldn't put a tube in your mouth to breathe out C02.
think about it, can you breath in and out at the same time, thru both your
mouth and nose? can you inhale air by your nose and exhale thru your mouth?
try it, it's free doesn't hurt anything, while sitting there, breath in thru
your nose and out thru your mouth......
there is a check valve/skin flap internally in your body, so you can't use
both for the opposite functions at the same time.. ever try to
eat/drink/breathe at the same time? similar, stuff down tour throat either
goes to your tummy or lungs, when you choke on food you can't breathe cuz
it's stuck on, to the tummy, not the lungs.....

there are some rare exceptions, birth defects and nasal gastric tubes come
to mind.....
Eagle
2009-06-23 04:46:05 UTC
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On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:07:51 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
think about it, can you breath in and out at the same time, thru both your
mouth and nose? can you inhale air by your nose and exhale thru your mouth?
try it, it's free doesn't hurt anything, while sitting there, breath in thru
your nose and out thru your mouth......
there is a check valve/skin flap internally in your body, so you can't use
both for the opposite functions at the same time.. ever try to
eat/drink/breathe at the same time? similar, stuff down tour throat either
goes to your tummy or lungs, when you choke on food you can't breathe cuz
it's stuck on, to the tummy, not the lungs.....
there are some rare exceptions, birth defects and nasal gastric tubes come
to mind.....
I didn't say I can do both at the same time, but like I said I'm a
mouth breather. Ok I tested myself in a calm and resting position, put
my hand near my mouth and nose, and all I can be sure about is that I
exhale out through my mouth. I don't feel any exhaling through my
nose. About inhaling I can't tell because sucking in air isn't felt
with the hand. I can't say for sure whether I'm not inhaling from my
mouth. My mouth is always a little bit open while I'm at rest or
sleeping.

I'm not sure if you're trying to say people inhale through their noses
and exhale through their mouths. If you are then I can just say mouth
breathers are an exception, I think we mostly breathe in and out
through our mouths :)
Peter Pan
2009-06-23 05:15:22 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:07:51 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
think about it, can you breath in and out at the same time, thru both your
mouth and nose? can you inhale air by your nose and exhale thru your mouth?
try it, it's free doesn't hurt anything, while sitting there, breath in thru
your nose and out thru your mouth......
there is a check valve/skin flap internally in your body, so you can't use
both for the opposite functions at the same time.. ever try to
eat/drink/breathe at the same time? similar, stuff down tour throat either
goes to your tummy or lungs, when you choke on food you can't breathe cuz
it's stuck on, to the tummy, not the lungs.....
there are some rare exceptions, birth defects and nasal gastric tubes come
to mind.....
I didn't say I can do both at the same time, but like I said I'm a
mouth breather. Ok I tested myself in a calm and resting position, put
my hand near my mouth and nose, and all I can be sure about is that I
exhale out through my mouth. I don't feel any exhaling through my
nose. About inhaling I can't tell because sucking in air isn't felt
with the hand. I can't say for sure whether I'm not inhaling from my
mouth. My mouth is always a little bit open while I'm at rest or
sleeping.
I'm not sure if you're trying to say people inhale through their noses
and exhale through their mouths. If you are then I can just say mouth
breathers are an exception, I think we mostly breathe in and out
through our mouths :)
no, i'm saying you can only do one thing, mouth or nose, at a time, not
breathe from both at the same time...you can inhale/exhale by nose OR mouth,
but not both at the same time......
and that means you can use your nose to breathe in and your mouth to breathe
out makes the internal check valve idea work....
mouth/nose breathers have nothing to do with it, but from an exit bag, you
can breathe IN thru your nose, and OUT thru your mouth/via a tube going
outside the bag....
Eagle
2009-06-22 18:49:00 UTC
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT), parkour32
Post by parkour32
anotehr idea i had was since according to pph you can put a hose
through the bottom of the bag to fill it up why not have another tube
going out that you can breathe out the co2 out of that way you couldnt
breathe any in
You mean put the tube in your mouth so the C02 goes out? You can't do
that since you need to have your mouth free to keep breathing helium.
Still C02 buildup is not really the big problem, it's having enough
helium in the bag to breathe in or else oxygen could get in from the
bottom and you'd be breathing a mixture of helium/oxygen.
Peter Pan
2009-06-22 19:32:07 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT), parkour32
Post by parkour32
anotehr idea i had was since according to pph you can put a hose
through the bottom of the bag to fill it up why not have another tube
going out that you can breathe out the co2 out of that way you couldnt
breathe any in
You mean put the tube in your mouth so the C02 goes out? You can't do
that since you need to have your mouth free to keep breathing helium.
Still C02 buildup is not really the big problem, it's having enough
helium in the bag to breathe in or else oxygen could get in from the
bottom and you'd be breathing a mixture of helium/oxygen.
sure you can, see other post, use your bodies built in check valve, breathe
in thru your nose, out thru the tube in your mouth going outside the
bag...... why do you think you can only breathe in with your mouth?
Eagle
2009-06-22 18:49:00 UTC
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On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:52:39 -0700 (PDT), parkour32
Post by parkour32
anotehr idea i had was since according to pph you can put a hose
through the bottom of the bag to fill it up why not have another tube
going out that you can breathe out the co2 out of that way you couldnt
breathe any in
You mean put the tube in your mouth so the C02 goes out? You can't do
that since you need to have your mouth free to keep breathing helium.
Still C02 buildup is not really the big problem, it's having enough
helium in the bag to breathe in or else oxygen could get in from the
bottom and you'd be breathing a mixture of helium/oxygen.

Peter Pan
2009-06-22 18:29:26 UTC
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Post by Eagle
On Sun, 21 Jun 2009 23:33:22 -0400, "Peter Pan"
Post by Peter Pan
Post by Eagle
Are you saying this works with the "Balloon Time" helium tanks? How do
you know if it fits them, like what specifications do you look for?
it's in line (fits in a hose at each end), low pressure, and probably easier
than making one
they do have high pressure ones too, but they are made for approx 2000 PSI
compressed gas, wouldn't make sense for this...
point is, if you want to use a tube tent, you don't need a regulator, just
unscrew the black/plastic only on when pressed balloon filler thingy, and
turn it on.... low enuf pressure that at only 260 psi won't blow up the
tent...
Yeah I'm still a little unsure about how to seal a tube tent. I found
a flimsy plastic one, looks like a giant garbage bag but I need to
find out how to seal both open ends. Possibly a heat gun on low will
melt big plastic bags to either end? There's also the problem of
getting the most oxygen out that you can before, I think there are
some ways but I still haven't read up on them.
why not just use an exit bag (proven 80-82% effective), instead of a tent?
(unknown effectiveness)
P***@HOTMAIL.COM
2009-07-17 12:52:46 UTC
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Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.

Thanks.
Peter Pan
2009-07-17 22:29:49 UTC
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Post by P***@HOTMAIL.COM
Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.
Thanks.
Correction, the HELIUM method does NOT require it at all... ONLY the
peacefull pill bookversion does, final exit and the wiki for here DON'T...
why not look at OTHER things that don't use/require it?
Arachnophobe
2009-07-17 22:44:00 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
Post by P***@HOTMAIL.COM
Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.
Thanks.
Correction, the HELIUM method does NOT require it at all... ONLY the
peacefull pill bookversion does, final exit and the wiki for here DON'T...
why not look at OTHER things that don't use/require it?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I HAVE, I have done weeks of research. And I'm really, really not
convinced that tanks without any sort of flow control will be
effective or "safe". I'm CONVINCED having a flow control device is the
only sensible way to go. I am not going to end up a vegetable because
I run out of helium after a few minutes. Average time to brain death
(detailed in posts on this group) is 13 minutes and has been reported
as high as 40. A few minutes from a tank with no flow control just
won't do it.
Peter Pan
2009-07-18 00:28:55 UTC
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Post by Arachnophobe
Post by Peter Pan
Post by P***@HOTMAIL.COM
Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.
Thanks.
Correction, the HELIUM method does NOT require it at all... ONLY the
peacefull pill bookversion does, final exit and the wiki for here DON'T...
why not look at OTHER things that don't use/require it?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I HAVE, I have done weeks of research. And I'm really, really not
convinced that tanks without any sort of flow control will be
effective or "safe". I'm CONVINCED having a flow control device is the
only sensible way to go. I am not going to end up a vegetable because
I run out of helium after a few minutes. Average time to brain death
(detailed in posts on this group) is 13 minutes and has been reported
as high as 40. A few minutes from a tank with no flow control just
won't do it.
odd, i've been here a while and *NEVER* seen those times, as a matter of
fact the wiki here, final exit, etc give much different times (for brain
cognitive function death, brain stem death about that long)

from a post way back in 2007, the ash wiki, and the final exit addendum.....

If the person has not had about four minutes of anoxia and pulls the bag
off, brain death of the cognitive centers has not occurred.
However,
most would be so deeply asleep after about two minutes or even
less that
it is most unlikely they would be aware and able to remove the
bag.
If they were alert enough to do that it suggests they had enough
leaking of air into the system that it wasn't working properly.
It takes only
about 10% of oxygen mixing in with the helium, due to a leaking
system, to keep the brain undamaged and in that case the patient
would
become awake during the process.

Waiting 30 minutes to have the bag removed is not necessary - if anoxia
(zero oxygen) is complete with a properly closed system and no
leaks due
to faulty tubing, the brain stem will have died in 15 minutes.

From the wiki here..
Q: What final exit says and what's missing there?
A: The book suggests running a tube from the helium tank to a plastic bag
which is positioned on top of your head with a rubber band or such around
your forehead to hold the bag in place. Let the bag fill with helium,
EXHALE, and then pull the bag down over your face positioning the rubber
band around your neck to hold it in place.

and

A: If you mean tanks that aren't filled O2, but rather nitrous oxide or
helium, then there's no need for scrubbing out CO2. Helium doesn't become
CHe when inhaled, it stays helium. Same with nitrous oxide. Your body
doesn't convert the gas at all. The same breath of helium can be used over
and over until you're dead.


at any rate, it goes in the bag over your head and you rebreath it... don't
see where you need a constant flow....
hypphen
2009-07-18 00:50:22 UTC
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Post by Arachnophobe
Post by Peter Pan
Post by P***@HOTMAIL.COM
Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.
Thanks.
Correction, the HELIUM method does NOT require it at all... ONLY the
peacefull pill bookversion does, final exit and the wiki for here DON'T...
why not look at OTHER things that don't use/require it?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I HAVE, I have done weeks of research. And I'm really, really not
convinced that tanks without any sort of flow control will be
effective or "safe". I'm CONVINCED having a flow control device is the
only sensible way to go. I am not going to end up a vegetable because
I run out of helium after a few minutes. Average time to brain death
(detailed in posts on this group) is 13 minutes and has been reported
as high as 40. A few minutes from a tank with no flow control just
won't do it.
Well, you're wrong if you're think so. Which wouldn't be a problem, if
you weren't posting here, because other people who chose helium method
might read this and think it's impossible to do without a regulator,
when in fact, according to various sources (the most reliable being
the author of Final Exit), many people did end their lives without it.
You'll use a regulator and that's fine, a regulator won't hurt
obviously, but don't say "a few minutes from a tank with no flow
control just won't do it" because you're wrong and that has been
proven statistically. The authors of Peaceful Pill have their own
method, which requires a regulator, but that doesn't mean that the
method described in "Final Exit" doesn't work. It's simply different.
Arachnophobe
2009-07-18 01:11:47 UTC
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Post by hypphen
Post by Arachnophobe
Post by Peter Pan
Post by P***@HOTMAIL.COM
Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Does anyone have the Manufacturer and/or Part Numbers for these
components. I'm depararately trying to source the parts for a
regulator in the UK, but have drawn a blank for the Peaceful Pill
version (Australian parts). If I know precisely what these US parts
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.
Thanks.
Correction, the HELIUM method does NOT require it at all... ONLY the
peacefull pill bookversion does, final exit and the wiki for here DON'T...
why not look at OTHER things that don't use/require it?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I HAVE, I have done weeks of research. And I'm really, really not
convinced that tanks without any sort of flow control will be
effective or "safe". I'm CONVINCED having a flow control device is the
only sensible way to go. I am not going to end up a vegetable because
I run out of helium after a few minutes. Average time to brain death
(detailed in posts on this group) is 13 minutes and has been reported
as high as 40. A few minutes from a tank with no flow control just
won't do it.
Well, you're wrong if you're think so. Which wouldn't be a problem, if
you weren't posting here, because other people who chose helium method
might read this and think it's impossible to do without a regulator,
when in fact, according to various sources (the most reliable being
the author of Final Exit), many people did end their lives without it.
You'll use a regulator and that's fine, a regulator won't hurt
obviously, but don't say "a few minutes from a tank with no flow
control just won't do it" because you're wrong and that has been
proven statistically. The authors of Peaceful Pill have their own
method, which requires a regulator, but that doesn't mean that the
method described in "Final Exit" doesn't work. It's simply different.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
That's not what i was trying to say at all. I stated that I had done
my own research and my own opinion of what is right for me is the
Peaceful Pill approach. I'm not saying it's right or wrong or that
this method is better than the Final Exit version. I'm just saying
that it's the method I am comfortable with. As I said in my other
thread I haven't seen anything that directly compares the two methods.
Final Exit states that no flow control is needed, the Peaceful Pill
insists that it is. I'm not saying they are both right or both wrong.
I'm not going to tell anyone to try one and ignore the other (which is
what people here seem to be telling me to do), I just want to know how
I can successfully carry out the method *I* have chosen without being
told I should ditch the idea and try the Final Exit solution.

I honestly didn't mean to do that in reverse, by suggesting the Final
Exit version is wrong. A very poor choice of words on my part and I
apologise. I'm just very frustrated that can't find any reliable
source of information on how to build/buy a flow control device. As
you say "a regulator won't hurt obviously" and I really would like to
adopt the "belt and braces" approach as I have seen a lot of
conflicting reports some which support Final Exit wholeheartedly, some
that support the Peaceful Pill wholeheartedly. I didn't quote those
timings as fact - I really didn't mean to do that at all. It's just
that with such conflicting data, I have to take the worst case
scenario into account and go for the "safest" approach - which, in my
own personal opinion, is the Peaceful Pill.

If I'm wrong about that in any way then please tell me. This is a very
big decision and I really have to make damn sure that I am going to do
this with as little margin of error as possible.

Forgive me if I am not making myself clear or coming over as
combative. But, I am suicidal after all and the last few weeks have
been an up and down ride of thinking I have found the right method.
Being told (admittedly by the Peaceful Pill) that a flow control is
simple and easy to build, finding out it isn't, then thinking I've
found one, then being told it's not the right one and so on.

It's very frustrating.
Peter Pan
2009-07-18 05:47:39 UTC
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"Arachnophobe" <***@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote in message news:a467c7c6-cf3d-4c94-bedf-***@n11g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...


It's very frustrating.

sort of, the final exit way works fine with regular and disposable tanks,
and the peacefull pill way works fine with regular high pressure tanks, but
not with disposable tanks unless you build stuff... from what i see, you
want to do the peacefull pill way, but not build the stuff... how bout a
plan b/middle of the road way? the disposable things have a 3/8" threaded
gas outlet, and the big tanks a 3/4"... how bout a simple brass 3/8" to 3/4"
nipple, then you can use either type tank with a standard easy to get
regulator/flow controller combo?
P***@HOTMAIL.COM
2009-07-17 13:00:15 UTC
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Post by Eagle
- A 1/4" hose-barb to 1/4" female NPT connector
- A 1/4" male NPT industrial quick-disconnect plug
- A 1/4" female NPT industrial quick-disconnect coupler
- A 8-32 x 1/2" brass machine screw
Note that I already had a length of 1/4" clear
vinyl tubing and 1/4" hose clamp, both of which were also bought at
Home Depot, plus a 1/4" SAE flare-to-1/4" male NPT adapter that I had
to buy at the industrial-supply store.
Can anyone tell me the manufacturer and/or part numbers for these
components? I'm desparately trying to find components in the UK to
build a regulator. I'm having no luck with the Peaceful Pill version
(Australian parts) and if I know precisely what these US components
are, I may be able to find the UK equivalents.

Thanks.
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