Discussion:
helium flow control fittings
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roller
2009-11-15 05:23:30 UTC
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so i see Exit International is selling the fittings that can be used
for a helium balloon tank or LPG cylinders.

http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/page/Buy+Helium+Fittings

does anybody know the names of each of these pieces?...i'm wondering
if i can't just get these pieces from a hardware store. it seems
unreasonable to fork over $74 for these simple fittings but *sigh* i
will if that is the only option.
Peter Pan
2009-11-15 18:51:13 UTC
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Post by roller
so i see Exit International is selling the fittings that can be used
for a helium balloon tank or LPG cylinders.
http://www.peacefulpillhandbook.com/page/Buy+Helium+Fittings
does anybody know the names of each of these pieces?...i'm wondering
if i can't just get these pieces from a hardware store. it seems
unreasonable to fork over $74 for these simple fittings but *sigh* i
will if that is the only option.
you may want to consider what you want to use them with, they are NOT for
higher pressure helium tanks (lower pressure party baloon canisters, not
tanks, helium tanks are high pressure, the words tank and canister are
unfortunately confusing, but legally cannisters (lower pressure) can be
shipped prefilled, but tanks (higher pressure) can only be shipped empty and
filled locally), nor LPG cylinders (again high pressure)

if you want them for lower pressure things (like balloon cannisters (not
tanks) - under 250 psi) you can get non brass ones fairly cheap (under $10),
or go to

http://www.superiorprod.com/pdfmedia/checkvalve.pdf

and see a wide varity of brass fittings for tanks
roller
2009-11-15 20:37:37 UTC
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wow, thanks for the info.

this is definately the kind of thing i am looking for, but i still
don't know what part(s) will work...(i hope i don't come off as
whining, the nuts and bolts lingo is beyond me, "Attach to Standard
Torch Inlets with “B” Size Internal Nut & Nipple"...like what the
fuck). i'm looking for specific part names!, so i know what to ask
for at my local hardware store, if i can get these things there.
again, i don't know which fittings are required...i don't even know
the size of the nipple on the balloon time canister.

just from the page you sent me, it seems like the CV-20R would work
(perhaps the CV-21L, you see i'm really confused), but the max
pressure is 200 psi, and the balloon time tanks operate at 260 psi, so
if someone could provide the exact part or parts i would need to make
this work, that would be greatly appreciated.

but i will bookmark that page, its a start at least.
roller
2009-11-15 20:55:33 UTC
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On Nov 15, 4:37 pm, roller <***@gmail.com> wrote:

also, if anyone could determine the part names for the fittings sold
on the exit international website. i will e-mail them myself but i
don't expect them to tell me.

these parts apparently work for the party balloon canisters and LPG
cylinders, as described on their website:

"The tail end has a machined control jet fitted inside so that when
the system is attached to a standard Worthington Balloon Time Helium
cylinder with a starting pressure of 220psi, a required gas flow of
~15 litres/min is provided by simply turning the cylinder control tap
on fully. This same flow control fitting fits directly onto the
4Kg LPG cylinders filled with Nitrogen at 400psi"

source: http://www.exitinternational.net/deliverance/eDvol7no6.pdf

thanks again.
Peter Pan
2009-11-16 08:40:01 UTC
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"roller" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message news:22bc9f4e-e06d-41d2-8eca-***@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 15, 4:37 pm, roller <***@gmail.com> wrote:

also, if anyone could determine the part names for the fittings sold
on the exit international website. i will e-mail them myself but i
don't expect them to tell me.

these parts apparently work for the party balloon canisters and LPG
cylinders, as described on their website:

"The tail end has a machined control jet fitted inside so that when
the system is attached to a standard Worthington Balloon Time Helium
cylinder with a starting pressure of 220psi, a required gas flow of
~15 litres/min is provided by simply turning the cylinder control tap
on fully. This same flow control fitting fits directly onto the
4Kg LPG cylinders filled with Nitrogen at 400psi"

source: http://www.exitinternational.net/deliverance/eDvol7no6.pdf

thanks again.

========================================================================
up to you, but in engineering/tech spec terms those aren't actually "flow
controllers" (technically they are flow limiters, controllers imply you can
control the output with an adjustment screw/handle etc (like a water faucet,
stove oven flame/heat control, volume control, etc... those use a fixed
needle jet to limit the flow to the max allowed by whatever jet is in there,
but only way to change the max flow is change the jet), you may be able to
find them in local stores by looking for flow limiters
point is, there are other methods suggested by others, besides exit
international, that don't require their specific device at all
(for example, one i like, the party balloon thing has a standard 3/8" tank
connector, 1/2" od x 3/8 id plastic hose for under $2 goes right on it, with
no stuff to block the flow hose from tank to exit bag like a controller, so
no pressure buildup/backup, simple/cheap/not as prone to mishaps)


at any rate, from above, you seem to be looking at the lower pressure stuff
(not the higher pressure tanks/cylinders, around 2000 psi, like the gases
sold for welding/medical. that require higher strength fittings and tubing,
usually metal, and a regulator to drop the pressure down to something more
manageable, aka/like a gas grill has a regulator that screws onto the tank
and drops the pressure to a working pressure where the controller )... it's
usually required to use metal fittings/tubing for high pressure, and then
nylon/plastic for lower pressure.... that ones an oddie, since the tank has
a metal outlet on the valve, and comes with a nylon fitting/hex connector
that screws onto that metal thing, the book talks about modifying the nylon
one, but they sell an expensive metal one to equal what they describe how to
make out of nylon, and you are looking for a cheaper alternative to
something that isn't needed/way over engineered/not equal to what their
instructs show
not really a big deal, the website/description talks about gas source but
not a high or low pressure gas source, so wasn't sure what source you meant,
high or low pressure, that brass fitting website (among others) is mainly
for high pressure metal fittings, so wondered if you planned on using high
or low pressure....
roller
2009-11-16 20:46:53 UTC
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Post by Peter Pan
(for example, one i like, the party balloon thing has a standard 3/8" tank
connector, 1/2" od x 3/8 id plastic hose for under $2 goes right on it, with
no stuff to block the flow hose from tank to exit bag like a controller, so
no pressure buildup/backup, simple/cheap/not as prone to mishaps)
where can i find this...either the fittings for under $2 or the entire
package, fittings + helium canister?
Post by Peter Pan
not really a big deal, the website/description talks about gas source but
not a high or low pressure gas source, so wasn't sure what source you meant,
high or low pressure, that brass fitting website (among others) is mainly
for high pressure metal fittings, so wondered if you planned on using high
or low pressure....
i'm looking for low pressure...i'm planning on using the balloon time
canisters ~ 220 psi.
roller
2009-11-16 20:49:19 UTC
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Post by roller
where can i find this...either the fittings for under $2 or the entire
package, fittings + helium canister?
or better still what are the part numbers, either works. i'm planning
on going with low pressure, since the high pressure tanks already have
a jet regulator on them.
Peter Pan
2009-11-16 23:15:07 UTC
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Post by roller
Post by Peter Pan
(for example, one i like, the party balloon thing has a standard 3/8" tank
connector, 1/2" od x 3/8 id plastic hose for under $2 goes right on it, with
no stuff to block the flow hose from tank to exit bag like a controller, so
no pressure buildup/backup, simple/cheap/not as prone to mishaps)
where can i find this...either the fittings for under $2 or the entire
package, fittings + helium canister?
Post by Peter Pan
not really a big deal, the website/description talks about gas source but
not a high or low pressure gas source, so wasn't sure what source you meant,
high or low pressure, that brass fitting website (among others) is mainly
for high pressure metal fittings, so wondered if you planned on using high
or low pressure....
i'm looking for low pressure...i'm planning on using the balloon time
canisters ~ 220 psi.
see above, or heck, i'll just copy it again...
Post by roller
Post by Peter Pan
(for example, one i like, the party balloon thing has a standard 3/8" tank
connector, 1/2" od x 3/8 id plastic hose for under $2 goes right on it, with
no stuff to block the flow hose from tank to exit bag like a controller, so
no pressure buildup/backup, simple/cheap/not as prone to mishaps)
no fittings needed, just the hose.....(sizes above, but to repeat, 1/2" od x
3/8" id) precut 10 ft pieces at most lowes/home depot/ace/etc for $1.99)
Peter Pan
2009-11-17 00:26:15 UTC
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Post by roller
Post by Peter Pan
(for example, one i like, the party balloon thing has a standard 3/8" tank
connector, 1/2" od x 3/8 id plastic hose for under $2 goes right on it, with
no stuff to block the flow hose from tank to exit bag like a controller, so
no pressure buildup/backup, simple/cheap/not as prone to mishaps)
where can i find this...either the fittings for under $2 or the entire
package, fittings + helium canister?
Post by Peter Pan
not really a big deal, the website/description talks about gas source but
not a high or low pressure gas source, so wasn't sure what source you meant,
high or low pressure, that brass fitting website (among others) is mainly
for high pressure metal fittings, so wondered if you planned on using high
or low pressure....
i'm looking for low pressure...i'm planning on using the balloon time
canisters ~ 220 psi.
found what i was looking for... There are two main sources of info for the
helium stuff, Final Exit and The Peaceful Pill....i like the simplicity and
brevity of the final exit method.....fraid the q's you have been asking,
mainly relate to the peacefull pill method, but i'll paste some of it, and
if you like it, you can investigate it at
<http://www.finalexit.org/>


in part, edited for brevity, from the final exit website

Final Exit: The Practicalities of Self-Deliverance
and Assisted Suicide for the Dying, 3rd Edition



ADDENDUM



Updated: May 2009, © 2009 Derek Humphry



You must have or obtain the book FINAL EXIT, 3rd edition, for these

changes to have any meaning.



FOREWORD



WHY THE NEED FOR AN ADDENDUM TO A COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON EUTHANASIA

SUCH AS FINAL EXIT?



Because it is a worldwide bestseller, it is printed in large volume by

Delta Trade Paperback and therefore only goes back to press about once

every five years. Euthanasia, self-deliverance, assisted suicide is a

mobile subject. We are constantly learning things. Moreover, with the

dismal future for law reform on physician-assisted suicide, more

people are realizing that they must handle the matter themselves.



FOLLOWING ARE UPDATES TO THE FINAL EXIT 3RD EDITION PAPERBACK BOOK

PRINTED AT THE END OF 2002. YOU MUST HAVE, OR OBTAIN, FINAL EXIT, 3RD

EDITION, FOR THESE CHANGES TO HAVE ANY MEANING.



ADDENDUM CONTENTS:



I. Refinements to Helium Bag Technique (pp. 132-139)
....
<snipped>



INERT GAS REFINEMENTS - Helium Bag Technique



For closure of the bag first around the eyebrows, and then around the

neck, consider buying an athlete's elasticated forehead sweatband from

a sports store. Elasticated bandages for binding wounds will also

suffice. But in your trial testing make sure all this fits firmly, to

your satisfaction, but not tight enough to hurt or indent the skin of

the neck.



Since publication of the 3rd edition of FINAL EXIT, the exit taps of

the helium tanks for toy balloon inflation have changed. There is now

a 4" black rubber nozzle which is meant to make it easier for children

to inflate party balloons. Screwed onto the base nozzle you will see a

hard, white, plastic base with hexagonal edges. This nozzle must first

be loosened with a wrench or pliers, and then it is easy to unscrew

the whole gadget with your fingers.



The tiny control "nail" which turns the gas on and off for balloon

inflation comes away with the black tubing and plastic nozzle.



Now all is left is a simple brass pipe with threads. Attach to this

pipe a 4 ft. length of clear vinyl tubing, 1/2" (half inch) outside

dimension and 3/8" (three eighths) inner dimension. Tubing is available at
large

hardware stores. It is essential to test everything for size and fit

well in advance.



If it seems hard to push the tubing over the brass threads, place the

end in hot water briefly to make it stretch, and there should be no

problem.



One tank full is lethal, but a cautious person would buy two tanks.

Just occasionally, a tank has not been properly filled at the factory,

or somebody has meddled with it. It is extremely difficult to check in

advance on a tank's contents. A meter with correct coupling would be

needed. The weight of an empty one could be compared with that of a

full one. But that's a lot of trouble.



If one tank happens to run out - which is rare - switch the piping to

the other tank which is standing prepared. Or, better still, link the

two tanks together with a T-junction (some call it a T-tube) available

from a hardware store or an aquarium supplies store. The patient would

then have to turn two switches for legal self-deliverance.
roller
2009-11-17 05:35:59 UTC
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wow, thanks for all the info, i don't know how you got a snippet from
the final exit: addendum, you must have purchased a copy online. if
you have a digital copy, you should upload it and post on the
newsgroup so everyone can have a peak...but anyway.
Post by Peter Pan
no fittings needed, just the hose.....(sizes above, but to repeat, 1/2" od x
3/8" id) precut 10 ft pieces at most lowes/home depot/ace/etc for $1.99)
the whole intent of my post was to assemble a flow regulator for the
helium balloon canister...a hose doesn't control the amount of helium
that escapes, we've just made a 360 back to square one. but thanks
for your replies Peter Pan, you're obviously very bright when it comes
to mechanics (navigating the terminology for me is difficult to say
the least). i guess that's the difference between Derek Humphry's
approach and Phillip Nitschke's approach, Humphry's is alot
easier!...but i'm still skeptical, i think a flow regulator is
necessary.
Peter Pan
2009-11-17 08:16:16 UTC
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Post by roller
wow, thanks for all the info, i don't know how you got a snippet from
the final exit: addendum, you must have purchased a copy online. if
you have a digital copy, you should upload it and post on the
newsgroup so everyone can have a peak...but anyway.
Post by Peter Pan
no fittings needed, just the hose.....(sizes above, but to repeat, 1/2" od x
3/8" id) precut 10 ft pieces at most lowes/home depot/ace/etc for $1.99)
the whole intent of my post was to assemble a flow regulator for the
helium balloon canister...a hose doesn't control the amount of helium
that escapes, we've just made a 360 back to square one. but thanks
for your replies Peter Pan, you're obviously very bright when it comes
to mechanics (navigating the terminology for me is difficult to say
the least). i guess that's the difference between Derek Humphry's
approach and Phillip Nitschke's approach, Humphry's is alot
easier!...but i'm still skeptical, i think a flow regulator is
necessary.
thats what I was trying to get at in the other posts, I firmly believe in no
flow control needed at all, just a straight hose.. if you have any sort of
block/flow regulator/connector etc in the line it will be subject to the
tank pressure (small tank up to 235psi-400psi), and plastic fittings are
usually only good for about 125psi, whereas brass/metal up to 3000psi.. for
what you said you wanted to do low pressure tank/peacefull pill way
(connector/flow controller/etc) you would have to look at brass/metal
fittings since you will have PSI's greater than the plastic/nylon can
handle, the other way (straight hose no blocks, you can either get away with
plastic/nylon, or sometimes none at all... at any rate, that link i gave you
the other day is for brass/metal connectors, and the instructs in a previous
post for doing it with no connectors needed at all... point is, you have all
sorts of info to do it either way, the choice is up to you....imo if you
want to do it and can afford it, just get the metal connector thing from
that link you were looking at, it's already engineered/made and you don't
have to go thru catalogs looking for things that may work....

if you were to use a high pressure tank and regulator, it usually drops the
tank pressure to a working pressure of from 20-100 psi

ps, nothing wrong with doing it multiple ways/a backup plan too... i have 2
smaller tanks and straight hoses to fill the bag, and then a big honking
high pressure 80cfm tank/regulator/flow controller (true adjustable, not
jetted) to make absolutely sure the helium keeps coming, and for the bag
part, i have 4 bags..... can you use the term overkill when you want to ctb?
How bout better safe than sorry?

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